Thursday, June 30, 2005

What's good for Spain....

The parliament of Spain legalized gay marriage in this staunchly Catholic nation. While adamently opposed by Catholics and conservatives in the country, the bill is just the latest of many progressive initiatives pursuied by the ruling Socialist-majority government of Prime Minister Zapetero.

In my home state of Maine, however, the conservative Xians, led by Michael Heath and other Jesus-lovers, have just turned in the required signatures to put a "people's veto" on the ballot in the fall. This will be the third time this divisive issue has been thrust in the faces of Mainers since 1997. It's bound to get ugly here in the Pine Tree State, as the out-of-state morality policy such as James Dobson's Family Research Council and others are already descending on the state, as well as fattening the coffers of the anti-gay proponents.

Interestingly, our governor John Baldacci had signed into law a bill granting legal protection to gays and lesbians, allowing Maine to join the rest of the New England states that have similar forms of legislation.

While Maine certainly has a progressive element, as well as those who go by the declaration of live-and-let-live, the anti-homosexual crowd will whip up the fears of others and this one could get extremely ugly come the fall. FMI about how you can join those who would like Maine to leave the 16th and join the 21st century, a good place to start is with Maine Won't Descriminate.


Rhonda said...

I went to the Jesus lovers website but I didn't feel much love coming through. They are evil people! I love that picture of God faring Michael praying with his hands together. I believe he should say some prayers for himself to show compassion on all mankind (and women kind). I don't know where his hatred of gays is coming from!!?? The scary part is that he is brainwashing all of his followers.

Jim said...

I'm not sure if I'd use "evil" as a term of endearment, but they certainly are people that don't have much tolerance for others.

It amazes me how they can take the example of Jesus, at least revealed in places like the gospels, and end up with organizations like the CCL of ME, Focus on the Family (James Dobson) and some of the other groups.

If the referendum is defeated and gay rights legislation is left to stand, you know that Heath will once again go the referendum route.

ChefDunn said...

I went to Catholic school. I was an alter boy. I used to go to church more than once a week. I was a eucharistic minister as a young-adult. I used to sing in the choir. I've actually read and studied every page of the Bible.

My wife and I got married in 1998. We tried for months to find a Catholic church that would marry us as my wife is Catholic but was never confirmed. We ended up getting married in a Congregational church. Let's just say my religious Catholic family was a little upset with me. My mother in particular still brings it up to this day. Oh, and she's a Republician and supports Bushiepoo and is very anti-gay marriage. I digress...

I am REALLY sick of so-called religious people with no tolerance for other people. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that its ok to kill thousands, for any reason. Nowhere does it say that its ok to discriminate against other people, for any reason.

Nowhere will you find me in Church on Sunday.

Anonymous said...

In your view, it seems that the only "rights" that you are concerned about are those of the liberal choir that frequents your site. What about the "rights" of Michael Heath and others who don't want gay rights? I guess their rights don't count because they're not a liberal like you and your friends!

There are plenty of people in Maine (and other places) who don't think "special" rights for gays is a good thing; we have a "right" to our opinion, even if liberals like you don't think we do.

Jim said...

Let me first say that I don't self-identify as a liberal. I consider myself a left-libertarian and I deplore much of what liberalism has come to stand for.

With that said, you resort to a common position taken by people like yourself (I'm assuming you are a Xian, or if not, at least self-identify as a member of the conservative camp); you see yourself as a persecuted member of a minority, when in fact, I'd make the case that you are the dominant cultural force in the U.S.

Nearly three years ago, while still a member of an evangelical congregation, I began wrestling with the issue of gay rights. Was the theology of the Bible truly opposed to homosexuality and lesbianism? A book by Walter Wink, Homosexuality and Christian Faith; Questions of Conscience for the Churches helped me to see that the Bible doesn't condemn gays and their lifestyles.

Here is a link that you might find interesting;

Personally, I no longer understand why so-called Xians freak out about monogamous homosexuals who choose to validate their love by getting married.

Am I missing something?

Let me end by saying that I no longer hold to an orthodox view of Xianity, but if I did, I think that I'd be open to a more tolerant view of gay marriage than so many currently embrace.

ChefDunn said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ChefDunn said...

"What about the "rights" of Michael Heath and others who don't want gay rights?"

That is a pretty weak argument. How about some real concrete facts or examples to support your opinion? You know, other than "its creepy" or "santity of marriage" (what does that mean anyway?).

Here's my 2 cents on the Gay Marriage thing... Personally, I'm not sure that gay people should be allowed to "get married". However, at the end of the day, its really none of my business. It has no bearing on my life whatsoever. Who am I to decide what is right or wrong for others? Will it magically change the face of marriage as an institution (the santity of marriage thing)? Well, I'm pretty sure that my wife and I will still have the same bond we've always had, with or without a silly piece of paper.

BTW, I think that's the first time I've ever been grouped in a liberal category. Its amazing how loosely that term is thrown around these days. The next thing you know I'll be hugging trees, saving whales, and playing God with embryos.

Jim said...

I find it interesting how the gay rights protections the governor signed into law and that we now are going to referendum on, always end up centering on marriage between gays.

Michael Heath and his legion of hate do a great job of hijacking the agenda and focusing it on marriage, rather than the issue of discrimination that the law is intended to prevent. I've even allowed myself to be pulled into the gay-marriage debate. With that said, here's my final piece on the post and the associated comments.

While my libertarian friends might disagree that the state can actually sanction marriage, the biggest issue I think comes down to extending rights and benefits to those couples who ought to receive them.

If the state recognizes only Judeo-Christian views of marriage--that of "one man and one woman", then what about common-law, gay and other forms of marriage? Isn't the state then sanctioning a religious view of an institution (that being marriage)?

As Chef Dunn wrote of which I concur, whether or not gays ultimately acquire the right to marry does nothing to affect my standing in the eyes of the state.

This entire issue is another case of those on the religious right making sure that their agenda receives the full protection of the law.